The Monkey and the Coconuts
In this chapter, Ben Ames Williams proposed a 5 sailor and 1
monkey problem involving coconuts. Today, the problem of coconuts is probably
the most worked on and the least often solved of Diophantine brainteasers
(equations calling for solutions in rational number), mentioned by Gardener in
the chapter. In simple terms, there are 5 sailors and 1 monkey who are stranded
and collected a pile of coconuts. Each man woke up during the night and
separated the pile into fifths with having one left over of which they gave to
the monkey. In the morning they separated what was left and came up with equal
piles. The question is, “How many coconuts were there in the beginning?” This
problem can seem rather simple, but, it is quite the opposite. This problem has
an infinite amount of answers in whole numbers, but in the chapter, our job is
to find the smallest positive number.
This problem can be expressed with these indeterminate
equations, which represent the successive divisions of the coconuts into
fifths. N is the original coconut number and F is the number each sailor
received on the final division and the +1’s are the coconuts tossed to the
monkey.
N=5A +1,
4A=5B+1,
4B=5C+1,
4C=5D+1,
4D=5E+1,
4E=5F+1.
In reduced form, using algebraic methods this can be
simplified to:
1,024N=15,625F + 11,529.
Gardner states the equation is too difficult to prove from
trial and error so he uses an alternative method of instead solving this with
negative coconuts! Since N is divided six times into five piles, 56
(or 15,625) can be added to any answer to give us the next answer. We could
also do this method for finding infinite numbers in the negatives, these
numbers will satisfy the equation but not the actual problem because the answer
has to be a positive integer.
The negative number he uses to solve the equation is -4. The
sailor approaches the -4 coconut pile
and tosses a positive coconut to the monkey, which leaves -5 coconuts now; he
divides the pile into fifths, takes his pile and hides it. This method leaves
us with exactly -4 coconuts again! When all the sailors finish they have -2
coconuts (because they split the pile at the end) and the monkey has +6
coconuts. Now to obtain the solution, we just subtract 4 from 15,625 to get
15,621 as our solution. This approach to the problem gives us the ability to
solve different coconut problems with different amounts of sailors equal to k(nn+1)
– m(n-1) where n is men, m is number of coconuts and k is an arbitrary integer
called the parameter.
In Dividing
Coconuts: A Linear Diophantine Problem from S. Singh and D.
Bhattacharya goes on to explain the problem in greater depth. They give two
solutions to the problem using alternative solving methods and by writing out
the actually process to obtain the solution. The math was shown for the
solution of the -4 coconut solution
Gardner explained which Gardner chose to leave out in the chapter. What
interested me was the alternative method they used, even though I hardly
understood it.
In Monkeys
and Coconuts by N. Anning, she too goes into further depth of solving
the coconut problem. N Anning, many gave examples of the coconut problem and
solving it with different amounts of sailors and monkeys. She also goes on to
talk about the original monkey and coconut problem that Williams modified. Gardner
mentioned the original monkey problem but didn’t do into much detail as he did
with Williams modification of +1 coconuts to the monkey.
In More
Coconuts by S. King, he related each step with solving the solution to
different steps in the story. He integrated numbers into his writing which I
liked because in this method he broke it down into parts and showed the numbers
that represent each step instead of having a giant solve with numbers
everywhere and context that you have to read after. I feel like it would have
been better for Gardener to take this approach rather than separating the
numbers and the words into separate parts.
This chapter really caught my attention by just the title. My first reaction was how could this title possibly have anything to do with math. It also surprised me that in this post Cade had said it was probably the most worked on problem, because I have not even heard of it. I also found that it is also the least solved problem, even though it is the most worked on. The problem itself seemed quite confusing in my opinion, though Cade did explain it well. The simplified equation also seems rather challenging, since it has such large numbers. Trial and error is a method I tend to use a lot when solving certain math problems and Gardner disproved this method in a certain way. He found an alternative method to solve this challenging problem, but his method seemed quite confusing in my opinion. The negative numbers used to solve the problem, as described in Cade's blog post, seem to be an interesting approach to solve such a problem. I agree with Cade's opinion where he said the approach in "More coconuts" seemed to be a better approach to this interesting problem. Over all I find the problem itself very interesting, but I do not think I would be able to solve something like this myself.
ReplyDeleteI found this chapter ironic. Mainly because the funniest title of any chapter in this book also tends to have the most complex question in the book. I found this chapter easy to follow with the explanation, so it was difficult to see why this problem was so hard to figure. I think the part that discussed negative coconuts confused me because I was always taught you can’t have a negative amount of an item. So the fact that negative amounts of coconuts make the problem easier to understand baffled me. I find it extremely funny that simplified version of this equation has such massive numbers in it. I agree with what Tiffany said, that the simplified version still seems rather complicated. The times in this chapter that the words, “it is clear,” were used made laugh because the reasoning itself seemed anything but clear. I never really understood why the sailors were giving an extra coconut to the monkey. I understand that it was for problem’s sake, but how did five sailors land on an island and get put in a position to ration coconuts with a monkey.
ReplyDeleteJust looking at the title alone made me want to read this chapter because it seemed interesting. The chapter itself wasn't very hard to figure out. Since he talks about the equations and bow to solve it I was able to follow along easily with it. If I had a question like this though and was told to solve it , I probably couldn't just come up with a formula like that. The only part that I didn't really understand was the whole negative amount of coconuts deal. I understand what he did and why he did it but I just don't get how you are able to have a negative amount of something. The negative numbers though would have been faster than the other way because the other formula was a trial and error so you would have to just keep guessing which might get frustrating after a while. Even though I didn't understand this way, it may be simpler to other people because it involved less steps and was easy to follow. I liked ready this chapter mainly because you just don't think of things like this and how math is involved with it. When you first read the title you don't know how math would possibly be involved with monkeys and coconuts so you want to read it and find out which is what I did.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the chapters that seemed interesting to me since the beginning. I started off by reading the first paragraph and the problem itself and decided to try and solve it on my own. I was unsuccessful in finding my own answer so I had to read more into the chapter to find out how many coconuts there were in the beginning. However, I did not expect the answer to be so high. 15,621 coconuts is a little absurd in my opinion. The way I tried to solve the problem was through using something similar to a recursive function where each step of the problem calls on the same equation until you are at the end of the night when the pile is divisible by 5. I must have done some amount of math wrong because I got no were near the answer that Gardner provided. After reading Gardner's solution to the problem I understood where I went wrong. I did something very similar to what the book shows however the math in mine was slightly off a bit. Overall though I found this to be an interesting chapter and after all of the chapters I've read so far I was almost surprised to find out that I understood the math being used in this one.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the chapters that seemed interesting to me since the beginning. I started off by reading the first paragraph and the problem itself and decided to try and solve it on my own. I was unsuccessful in finding my own answer so I had to read more into the chapter to find out how many coconuts there were in the beginning. However, I did not expect the answer to be so high. 15,621 coconuts is a little absurd in my opinion. The way I tried to solve the problem was through using something similar to a recursive function where each step of the problem calls on the same equation until you are at the end of the night when the pile is divisible by 5. I must have done some amount of math wrong because I got no were near the answer that Gardner provided. After reading Gardner's solution to the problem I understood where I went wrong. I did something very similar to what the book shows however the math in mine was slightly off a bit. Overall though I found this to be an interesting chapter and after all of the chapters I've read so far I was almost surprised to find out that I understood the math being used in this one.
ReplyDeleteI can genuinely say that I loved this chapter and it really captured my attention! I love brainteasers and I found this one super interesting, while also appropriately challenging. However, it's kind of rude that Ben Ames Williams left everyone hanging and neglected to reveal the long anticipated answer to the puzzle for 20 whole years. I was a little confused by the method of solving the problem with negative coconuts since you can't have a negative amount of a physical object. Additionally, regarding the simplified version of the brainteaser, I don't see the point in splitting the coconuts in half, but I suppose if doing so helps someone better understand the question and reach a solution more easily, more power to them! As I review Williams' version of the question, my understanding is this: essentially the first person to take their share of coconuts should have the most because if you divide all of them into five piles, take a fifth of that, and then recompile the rest, the next man to take a share of the coconuts will take one-fifth of the pile that only contains four-fifths of the original amount, not knowing that a fifth has been taken already, but still keeping fairness in mind and leaving an equal share for the other people. Overall this was a great chapter, and Cade did a good job of explaining it!
ReplyDeleteI found this chapter particularly fun to read! I am a really big fan of riddles and these types of problems. This riddle is very math-based and makes it a little harder to figure out than other ones I have heard. The formulas that they used in this chapter were pretty confusing for me to follow, so I did not use them when I tried solving the problem. I spent quite a while looking for an answer but I was unsuccessful. So, I read the book to find out what the answer they have is. I was very shocked to see that the number was so high! I expected the number to be around 50 not 15,621. I continued reading in the book to see how they got such a high number, and although the process makes sense, it’s confusing to me. I understand why a negative amount of coconuts was used but I don’t understand how that is logically possible. I am thinking too literally about this problem than I should be, apparently. Obviously this riddle is made for mathematicians and not normal people. I think I’ll stick to my other riddles. Overall though I thought it was an interesting chapter.
ReplyDeleteA lot of you comment on the use of negative number for an answer. I think this idea is one of the reasons math is so useful. You use an abstract idea like "negative numbers" to be able to solve a problem where only positive numbers make sense. So -4 is not a valid answer but -4 can lead you to the final answer by realizing that -4 + 5^6 would also satisfy the conditions of the problem.
ReplyDelete